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	<title>Comments on: History Repeating Itself?  The Warren County Trash contract</title>
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	<link>http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/history-repeating-itself-the-warren-county-trash-contract/</link>
	<description>An Open Citizen Forum</description>
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		<title>By: Lisa Woods</title>
		<link>http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/history-repeating-itself-the-warren-county-trash-contract/#comment-726</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Woods</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-726</guid>
		<description>Well if history repeats itself here, what will probably happen will be something similar to the approach taken with the recent SWBA Chairman. Make promises, don&#039;t keep their end of the bargain....then wait a year and make extremely distorted comments about the facts in a news article blaming someone else (Mike Clapper) for what was originally their responsibilty. It sure is sad, that this appears to be what has become the norm of how to do business in Page County. 

I just wonder how they manage to take a bath if most of the time is spent thinking they walk on water? You can get pretty dirty with this type of self image. 

Good luck Page County Citizens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well if history repeats itself here, what will probably happen will be something similar to the approach taken with the recent SWBA Chairman. Make promises, don&#8217;t keep their end of the bargain&#8230;.then wait a year and make extremely distorted comments about the facts in a news article blaming someone else (Mike Clapper) for what was originally their responsibilty. It sure is sad, that this appears to be what has become the norm of how to do business in Page County. </p>
<p>I just wonder how they manage to take a bath if most of the time is spent thinking they walk on water? You can get pretty dirty with this type of self image. </p>
<p>Good luck Page County Citizens.</p>
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		<title>By: drdick</title>
		<link>http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/history-repeating-itself-the-warren-county-trash-contract/#comment-695</link>
		<dc:creator>drdick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-695</guid>
		<description>The New County Administration Complex

Get ready dear Citizens, it has been announced that during Tuesday’s Board of Supervisors meeting the “County Office Building Update” will be discussed, notice this is the last item on the agenda.  One must wonder why last, maybe because everyone will have heard enough and will have gone home.  However, those who remain will hear the news, it will cost more than originally thought, and the number has climbed to something around $10 million – not a fact, just thinking out loud. 
One might wonder, what has the Board of Supervisors done to ensure that the needs of the citizens have been met?  Or is this a case where the outgoing members of the Board are getting a little bit concerned about whether or not their name will appear on the plaque which will adorn the front of the building?  Or, does the Board not want to waste the time to do an analysis to determine what the citizens want because they do not care what the citizens want?  We know what the Board wants, a 50,000 square foot building on their $600,000 lot, but is that what the citizens of Page County want?
So, where does the BOS plan to get the money to build this complex?  Is it new taxes? Or, will they rob Peter to pay Paul?  This Board is known for telling the citizens one thing and doing something else.  Maybe they have been enticed by the contract with Warren County.  Were we not told that that money would pay off the landfill in the next 40 years?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The New County Administration Complex</p>
<p>Get ready dear Citizens, it has been announced that during Tuesday’s Board of Supervisors meeting the “County Office Building Update” will be discussed, notice this is the last item on the agenda.  One must wonder why last, maybe because everyone will have heard enough and will have gone home.  However, those who remain will hear the news, it will cost more than originally thought, and the number has climbed to something around $10 million – not a fact, just thinking out loud.<br />
One might wonder, what has the Board of Supervisors done to ensure that the needs of the citizens have been met?  Or is this a case where the outgoing members of the Board are getting a little bit concerned about whether or not their name will appear on the plaque which will adorn the front of the building?  Or, does the Board not want to waste the time to do an analysis to determine what the citizens want because they do not care what the citizens want?  We know what the Board wants, a 50,000 square foot building on their $600,000 lot, but is that what the citizens of Page County want?<br />
So, where does the BOS plan to get the money to build this complex?  Is it new taxes? Or, will they rob Peter to pay Paul?  This Board is known for telling the citizens one thing and doing something else.  Maybe they have been enticed by the contract with Warren County.  Were we not told that that money would pay off the landfill in the next 40 years?</p>
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		<title>By: Alice Richmond</title>
		<link>http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/history-repeating-itself-the-warren-county-trash-contract/#comment-519</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice Richmond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-519</guid>
		<description>Rick, the supervisors are free to call and meet with Mark Belton at any time -- but by law they aren&#039;t allowed to gather together in a room of more than two of them at the same time, unless they announce the meeting and invite the public.  So in order to learn about things, if each of them were briefed by Mark, he would have to do it at least three times, so that no more than two of them would be in the room.  Needless to say, this isn&#039;t likely to happen.

The Chairman can, and I can only assume does, spend a lot of time with him, but the rest of the Supervisors generally seem to get their information through the packets or individual phone calls.  How much preparation they do I can only assume.  But between the formal meetings, and the fact that they have regular jobs in addition to their Supervisor duties, strongly suggests that they don&#039;t get much more information than we do.

Because this was a contract, one can infer that they talked about it in their closed sessions over time.  If they did, and they still ended up with a contract this frightening, that&#039;s another problem all together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick, the supervisors are free to call and meet with Mark Belton at any time &#8212; but by law they aren&#8217;t allowed to gather together in a room of more than two of them at the same time, unless they announce the meeting and invite the public.  So in order to learn about things, if each of them were briefed by Mark, he would have to do it at least three times, so that no more than two of them would be in the room.  Needless to say, this isn&#8217;t likely to happen.</p>
<p>The Chairman can, and I can only assume does, spend a lot of time with him, but the rest of the Supervisors generally seem to get their information through the packets or individual phone calls.  How much preparation they do I can only assume.  But between the formal meetings, and the fact that they have regular jobs in addition to their Supervisor duties, strongly suggests that they don&#8217;t get much more information than we do.</p>
<p>Because this was a contract, one can infer that they talked about it in their closed sessions over time.  If they did, and they still ended up with a contract this frightening, that&#8217;s another problem all together.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Buxton</title>
		<link>http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/history-repeating-itself-the-warren-county-trash-contract/#comment-518</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Buxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-518</guid>
		<description>Thanks Alice.  I was not sure how the relationship between the Board and the County Administrator worked.  I thought there was free and constant exchange of questions, ideas, and facts between them.  I thought what one knew, they all knew.  I did not know things were done with information packages put together by a single source and given to the Board members as their sole source of information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Alice.  I was not sure how the relationship between the Board and the County Administrator worked.  I thought there was free and constant exchange of questions, ideas, and facts between them.  I thought what one knew, they all knew.  I did not know things were done with information packages put together by a single source and given to the Board members as their sole source of information.</p>
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		<title>By: Alice Richmond</title>
		<link>http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/history-repeating-itself-the-warren-county-trash-contract/#comment-516</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice Richmond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-516</guid>
		<description>There is a fundamental flaw in the public hearing process.   We have public hearings about things after it&#039;s too late to do anything about them.   The informational meetings about what decision is being made don&#039;t occur until after the public has its chance to speak.   So if anybody is going to speak, they&#039;re going to speak without the knowledge about what they are speaking about.   This happens on the budgets, it happened on the Emerald City land, and time and again.  

The most disturbing thing is that it appears that the Supervisors don&#039;t have the information, either.   They have briefing packets, delivered a few days in advance, but no indication that any hard questions are being asked of the people who are briefing them.  

This is not the behavior of a commercial Board of Directors, and not adequate for people who are spending $90M of taxpayer money every year.  

What can be done?  More must be expected of our county administrator in terms of disclosing, answering questions, briefing the supervisors and the public.   It is not sufficient to negotiate a land deal for $66,000 an acre in a down market, and say  &quot;that&#039;s all I could get.&quot;  It is not sufficient to sign a 15 year, no escalation, no escape contract, and say &quot;it was a Bird in Hand.&quot;  

The Chairman of our Board was perfectly capable of badgering and questioning the School Board Superintendent about expenditures.   But his job would be more effectively done if he started badgering and questioning our County Administrator instead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a fundamental flaw in the public hearing process.   We have public hearings about things after it&#8217;s too late to do anything about them.   The informational meetings about what decision is being made don&#8217;t occur until after the public has its chance to speak.   So if anybody is going to speak, they&#8217;re going to speak without the knowledge about what they are speaking about.   This happens on the budgets, it happened on the Emerald City land, and time and again.  </p>
<p>The most disturbing thing is that it appears that the Supervisors don&#8217;t have the information, either.   They have briefing packets, delivered a few days in advance, but no indication that any hard questions are being asked of the people who are briefing them.  </p>
<p>This is not the behavior of a commercial Board of Directors, and not adequate for people who are spending $90M of taxpayer money every year.  </p>
<p>What can be done?  More must be expected of our county administrator in terms of disclosing, answering questions, briefing the supervisors and the public.   It is not sufficient to negotiate a land deal for $66,000 an acre in a down market, and say  &#8220;that&#8217;s all I could get.&#8221;  It is not sufficient to sign a 15 year, no escalation, no escape contract, and say &#8220;it was a Bird in Hand.&#8221;  </p>
<p>The Chairman of our Board was perfectly capable of badgering and questioning the School Board Superintendent about expenditures.   But his job would be more effectively done if he started badgering and questioning our County Administrator instead.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Baldwin</title>
		<link>http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/history-repeating-itself-the-warren-county-trash-contract/#comment-509</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Baldwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 04:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-509</guid>
		<description>Sadly, it looks like a done deal, however, and until all parties sign the dotted line, it is not a done deal. I would appeal to every thinking Page County resident and hopefully, some retrospective supervisors to rise up in loud indignation, in any and all possible venues, to derail this absurd travesty before it can be consummated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly, it looks like a done deal, however, and until all parties sign the dotted line, it is not a done deal. I would appeal to every thinking Page County resident and hopefully, some retrospective supervisors to rise up in loud indignation, in any and all possible venues, to derail this absurd travesty before it can be consummated.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Buxton</title>
		<link>http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/history-repeating-itself-the-warren-county-trash-contract/#comment-508</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Buxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-508</guid>
		<description>Karl,  I agree with you, but I also notice that it is a done deal.  It appears the only way it will not happen is if Warren County doesn&#039;t take the new wording.  And you can bet they will as I see no reason for them not to.  I keep these things in mind and vote at elections, beyond that, I see very little that can be done.  This type of &quot;leadership&quot; without citizen input has caused untold damage through the years.  I hope in future elections this becomes a major issue.  I can&#039;t understand the mindset that believes the board members know everything and don&#039;t need citizen input.  The flippant cliche does a good job of showing the depth of business sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karl,  I agree with you, but I also notice that it is a done deal.  It appears the only way it will not happen is if Warren County doesn&#8217;t take the new wording.  And you can bet they will as I see no reason for them not to.  I keep these things in mind and vote at elections, beyond that, I see very little that can be done.  This type of &#8220;leadership&#8221; without citizen input has caused untold damage through the years.  I hope in future elections this becomes a major issue.  I can&#8217;t understand the mindset that believes the board members know everything and don&#8217;t need citizen input.  The flippant cliche does a good job of showing the depth of business sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Baldwin</title>
		<link>http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/history-repeating-itself-the-warren-county-trash-contract/#comment-507</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Baldwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-507</guid>
		<description>I have a lot of objections but I object most vociferously to the rush to evade citizen input! Especially with the illogical fiduciary terms that are currently on the table. Does no one on the Board of Supervisors or their consultants have a modicum of business intelligence??

1) Agreeing to a daily fee that is12% below costs is irresponsible to the extreme. If you&#039;re going to sell something and know your not expecting to make a profit is one thing, but selling something for less than what it cost you is insane.
2) The 25 cent per ton increase per year is even more conspicuous for its ludicrous lack of economic cents (pun intended). Let&#039;s see, we start the second year with only a 0.0080645% increase. That dismal annual cost-of-doing-business increase then decrements in the following years even further; i.e. Third year - 0.008%, fourth year - 0.0079365%, fifth year - 0.007874%, sixth year - 0.0073529 and so on.

The only competent means of applying an annual increase is to tie it to some universally acceptable percentage rate increase index. If a responsible contract can’t be incorporated then there should be NO DEAL. To me this piece of garbage contract (pun intended again) is a non- starter!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a lot of objections but I object most vociferously to the rush to evade citizen input! Especially with the illogical fiduciary terms that are currently on the table. Does no one on the Board of Supervisors or their consultants have a modicum of business intelligence??</p>
<p>1) Agreeing to a daily fee that is12% below costs is irresponsible to the extreme. If you&#8217;re going to sell something and know your not expecting to make a profit is one thing, but selling something for less than what it cost you is insane.<br />
2) The 25 cent per ton increase per year is even more conspicuous for its ludicrous lack of economic cents (pun intended). Let&#8217;s see, we start the second year with only a 0.0080645% increase. That dismal annual cost-of-doing-business increase then decrements in the following years even further; i.e. Third year &#8211; 0.008%, fourth year &#8211; 0.0079365%, fifth year &#8211; 0.007874%, sixth year &#8211; 0.0073529 and so on.</p>
<p>The only competent means of applying an annual increase is to tie it to some universally acceptable percentage rate increase index. If a responsible contract can’t be incorporated then there should be NO DEAL. To me this piece of garbage contract (pun intended again) is a non- starter!</p>
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		<title>By: jay dedman</title>
		<link>http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/history-repeating-itself-the-warren-county-trash-contract/#comment-506</link>
		<dc:creator>jay dedman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-506</guid>
		<description>Gerald Cubbage makes a great point. The county wants to sign a 15 year contract in these financial times? Who knows how expensive diesel fuel will be in two years.

I appreciate that the Board of Supervisors is looking for sustainable ways to offset the cost of running the county, but there&#039;s no need to rush into a 15 year contract. 

Why not take time to get local citizens on board? This is a recipe for a lot of future resentments if an unpredictable problem occurs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerald Cubbage makes a great point. The county wants to sign a 15 year contract in these financial times? Who knows how expensive diesel fuel will be in two years.</p>
<p>I appreciate that the Board of Supervisors is looking for sustainable ways to offset the cost of running the county, but there&#8217;s no need to rush into a 15 year contract. </p>
<p>Why not take time to get local citizens on board? This is a recipe for a lot of future resentments if an unpredictable problem occurs.</p>
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