Comments on: So, what’s the Plan? http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/ An Open Citizen Forum Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:05:52 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Steve Whisler http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-270 Steve Whisler Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:55:39 +0000 http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-270 Chris L., I will not say I totally disagree with your message about Mr. Mattingly but are you not being a little hard on him. After all, have we not all left a few puddles around on this blog. Chris L.,

I will not say I totally disagree with your message about Mr. Mattingly but are you not being a little hard on him. After all, have we not all left a few puddles around on this blog.

]]> By: Rick http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-264 Rick Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:28:21 +0000 http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-264 Hi Chris L. After one of my first posts on this blog, Don who doesn't know me, advised me that I sounded like a "prick" and that the 9 acres were worth $60,000.00 per acre. It wasn't hard to see that there was an opinionated and narrow person behind that post. When he made his remark that what was at stake was, wet or dry airplanes, I was given further indication of the depth of the intellectual thinking. Now with your help, I know that he represents the "party line". Thanks for the info. Rick Hi Chris L.
After one of my first posts on this blog, Don who doesn’t know me, advised me that I sounded like a “prick” and that the 9 acres were worth $60,000.00 per acre. It wasn’t hard to see that there was an opinionated and narrow person behind that post. When he made his remark that what was at stake was, wet or dry airplanes, I was given further indication of the depth of the intellectual thinking. Now with your help, I know that he represents the “party line”. Thanks for the info.
Rick

]]> By: obx http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-262 obx Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:03:05 +0000 http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-262 Alice, You are totally correct in your concept and everyone knows it, but won't admit it. The fact is and it has been admitted, (Daily News Record, Feb. 5, 2008),......"without more hangars, we'd never increase our base aircraft. And, with that, we wouldn't get runway improvements." By runway improvements, I am assuming they meant expansion. Does that mean that one of the stipulations for a the grant to expand the runway, was that the airport had to have more hangars?? Alice,
You are totally correct in your concept and everyone knows it, but won’t admit it. The fact is and it has been admitted, (Daily News Record, Feb. 5, 2008),……”without more hangars, we’d never increase our base aircraft. And, with that, we wouldn’t get runway improvements.” By runway improvements, I am assuming they meant expansion. Does that mean that one of the stipulations for a the grant to expand the runway, was that the airport had to have more hangars??

]]> By: Alice Richmond http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-261 Alice Richmond Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:26:35 +0000 http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-261 I'm still overwhelmed by the concept that people who don't live in Page County, but do own an airplane, are going to DRIVE to Page County to get on their airplane, which is parked here. Why would somebody drive to a place that is an hour from anywhere, in order to use their airplane? Don't you have a plane so you can prevent driving? It just sounds like flawed thinking. I fear that it will result in the citizens of Page, who are not even middle class people, let alone rich people with airplanes, subsidizing the 15 people who own planes, through tax dollars. It has no promise of helping the county. You can't attract business with an airport when the roads aren't good enough for truck traffic. I’m still overwhelmed by the concept that people who don’t live in Page County, but do own an airplane, are going to DRIVE to Page County to get on their airplane, which is parked here. Why would somebody drive to a place that is an hour from anywhere, in order to use their airplane? Don’t you have a plane so you can prevent driving? It just sounds like flawed thinking. I fear that it will result in the citizens of Page, who are not even middle class people, let alone rich people with airplanes, subsidizing the 15 people who own planes, through tax dollars.

It has no promise of helping the county. You can’t attract business with an airport when the roads aren’t good enough for truck traffic.

]]> By: drdick http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-260 drdick Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:30:07 +0000 http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-260 The issue is not whether planes are tied down in a “field” or placed in a hangar and protected from the elements. Anyone who owns an airplane has a financial interest in the investment, and a hangar is investment protection. I will grant you that. How many planes do residents of Page County own? Is there a substantial number? I drove by the airport today and there were 8 airplanes tied down on the tarmac, 3 in the grass. Is that a sufficient number to justify building 30 “T-hangars”? I doubt it. We, the Citizens, have been told that there are 20 aircraft owners who have made a deposit to be put on a waiting list. That is great. Has anyone gone back to the prospective renters and validated the fact that there is still interest, or is there an assumption that if you build they will fly in and occupy your T-Hangars? Don, this is not a “Doomsday Scenario”. The reality of the matter is the fact that tax dollars are being spent so a few can benefit - VERY few. Those “flyers” flying to the Luray Caverns Airport will enter the airspace under Visual Flight Rules (VFR – blue sky) and not conditions that require Instrument Flight Rules (IFR – cloud cover). Under the latter they will go to the Shenandoah Valley Regional Airport where there is instrumentation that will permit landings under less than VFR conditions. And, please do not bring in the argument that commuter aircraft will come into our airport. That will not happen. At the moment, United Airlines is flying commuter service from Shenandoah Valley Regional Airport. Prior to United, US Air provided commuter service to Pittsburgh and Dulles. US Air left because there were insufficient passengers to support their flights. In the case of United, it is a matter of time. Factoring in to your opinions, if you live in Page County, is another tax burden that the hangars may bring to the citizens of this County. That is, if the hangars are not the “little economic engine”, as the Airport Manager calls them, and do not have sufficient power to race down the runway and fly, what then? Who will pay the debt service? Whinny the Pooh? Absolutely not. The Citizens of Page County. That is what the voice of the citizens are saying, Don. Why would the elected officials not take these things into consideration? I will let you answer that question. The issue is not whether planes are tied down in a “field” or placed in a hangar and protected from the elements. Anyone who owns an airplane has a financial interest in the investment, and a hangar is investment protection. I will grant you that. How many planes do residents of Page County own? Is there a substantial number? I drove by the airport today and there were 8 airplanes tied down on the tarmac, 3 in the grass. Is that a sufficient number to justify building 30 “T-hangars”? I doubt it.
We, the Citizens, have been told that there are 20 aircraft owners who have made a deposit to be put on a waiting list. That is great. Has anyone gone back to the prospective renters and validated the fact that there is still interest, or is there an assumption that if you build they will fly in and occupy your T-Hangars?
Don, this is not a “Doomsday Scenario”. The reality of the matter is the fact that tax dollars are being spent so a few can benefit – VERY few. Those “flyers” flying to the Luray Caverns Airport will enter the airspace under Visual Flight Rules (VFR – blue sky) and not conditions that require Instrument Flight Rules (IFR – cloud cover). Under the latter they will go to the Shenandoah Valley Regional Airport where there is instrumentation that will permit landings under less than VFR conditions.
And, please do not bring in the argument that commuter aircraft will come into our airport. That will not happen. At the moment, United Airlines is flying commuter service from Shenandoah Valley Regional Airport. Prior to United, US Air provided commuter service to Pittsburgh and Dulles. US Air left because there were insufficient passengers to support their flights. In the case of United, it is a matter of time.
Factoring in to your opinions, if you live in Page County, is another tax burden that the hangars may bring to the citizens of this County. That is, if the hangars are not the “little economic engine”, as the Airport Manager calls them, and do not have sufficient power to race down the runway and fly, what then? Who will pay the debt service? Whinny the Pooh? Absolutely not. The Citizens of Page County. That is what the voice of the citizens are saying, Don. Why would the elected officials not take these things into consideration? I will let you answer that question.

]]> By: Chris L. http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-259 Chris L. Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:22:56 +0000 http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-259 Hey Rick, don't waste your time. You’re dealing with a proponent of the county line. Donny Boy will never get it. If you haven't noticed, most of Donny Boy’s comments don't offer much other than self-righteous pablum without substance. There is no way to tell what factors might enter into Donny Boy's opinions but there’s a distinct aroma of the arrogant, elitist views from the Rotary, the mansion on the hill and the veranda of the country club. I feel kind of sorry for Donny Boy. He just doesn’t seem to grasp that the average Joes in this county are in deep stuff thanks to the hideous financial decisions made by the BoS over the last couple of years. So when Donny Boy makes his cryptic, one-dimensional comments, just remember he is peeing down his own leg. It feels hot to him but no one else really cares. Hey Rick, don’t waste your time. You’re dealing with a proponent of the county line. Donny Boy will never get it. If you haven’t noticed, most of Donny Boy’s comments don’t offer much other than self-righteous pablum without substance. There is no way to tell what factors might enter into Donny Boy’s opinions but there’s a distinct aroma of the arrogant, elitist views from the Rotary, the mansion on the hill and the veranda of the country club. I feel kind of sorry for Donny Boy. He just doesn’t seem to grasp that the average Joes in this county are in deep stuff thanks to the hideous financial decisions made by the BoS over the last couple of years. So when Donny Boy makes his cryptic, one-dimensional comments, just remember he is peeing down his own leg. It feels hot to him but no one else really cares.

]]> By: Don Mattingly http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-258 Don Mattingly Tue, 19 Feb 2008 02:42:47 +0000 http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-258 Doomsday scenarios do not factor into my opinions. Doomsday scenarios do not factor into my opinions.

]]> By: Rick http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-257 Rick Tue, 19 Feb 2008 02:04:50 +0000 http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-257 Don, you can not see the relationship between there being more planes and the impact they will cause? To you the issue is just wet and dry planes? I would suggest that you look a little deeper than that, keeping your emotions in check, and you might see more. Don, you can not see the relationship between there being more planes and the impact they will cause? To you the issue is just wet and dry planes? I would suggest that you look a little deeper than that, keeping your emotions in check, and you might see more.

]]> By: Alice Richmond http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-256 Alice Richmond Sun, 17 Feb 2008 13:54:40 +0000 http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-256 It is such a joy to see the blog carrying on its discussion in that special blog way again. As I see the issue here, we have a Board that in the past has behaved in mystifying ways, pushing a personal agenda for which I can not name names (yet, but when the next election comes, I'll be sure to), and caring not one whit about the welfare of the taxpayers of this county. These behaviors have been masked on the one hand as "preserving the rural nature of the county" and when they don't fit that, they are presented as "attracting business." These are not the normal tensions of two conflicting goals. What they were in the past was quite simply, personal agendas, personal preferences, and bad judgement. Our two new Board members may make a difference, but they have to recognize that a lot of these messes are well in progress. The incremental decisions that come before the board now, when they are not presented with objective supporting information, can easily appear like there is only one rational path, no way out, no good choice. Additionally, the two new members have to recognize that they need to do what Chairman LaFrance does. Call each person ahead of time and discuss the vote, one on one. Otherwise, the votes will continue to be pre-determined when they walk into the room. Discussion in the room is superficial, and words from the public hearing are ignored, because the vote was pre-established, based on incomplete and biased information. I certainly hesitate to say misleading information, but I must make it clear that the information appears misleading and possibly even deceptive to my eyes, Mark. Oh, did I say that out loud? Excuse me, the previous discussion was just my personal opinion. I have been holding back on my personal opinion for a year now, and perhaps that's the reason I have a coughing fit every time I walk into the public board meetings. It must be the strain of choking on the words I meant to say. Perhaps I can fix that cough by being more clear in what I mean in the future. Hey, don't hold back on posting now. As you can see, it is still entirely possible to be anonymous to the people who read the board. It is such a joy to see the blog carrying on its discussion in that special blog way again.

As I see the issue here, we have a Board that in the past has behaved in mystifying ways, pushing a personal agenda for which I can not name names (yet, but when the next election comes, I’ll be sure to), and caring not one whit about the welfare of the taxpayers of this county.

These behaviors have been masked on the one hand as “preserving the rural nature of the county” and when they don’t fit that, they are presented as “attracting business.” These are not the normal tensions of two conflicting goals. What they were in the past was quite simply, personal agendas, personal preferences, and bad judgement.

Our two new Board members may make a difference, but they have to recognize that a lot of these messes are well in progress. The incremental decisions that come before the board now, when they are not presented with objective supporting information, can easily appear like there is only one rational path, no way out, no good choice. Additionally, the two new members have to recognize that they need to do what Chairman LaFrance does. Call each person ahead of time and discuss the vote, one on one. Otherwise, the votes will continue to be pre-determined when they walk into the room. Discussion in the room is superficial, and words from the public hearing are ignored, because the vote was pre-established, based on incomplete and biased information. I certainly hesitate to say misleading information, but I must make it clear that the information appears misleading and possibly even deceptive to my eyes, Mark.

Oh, did I say that out loud? Excuse me, the previous discussion was just my personal opinion. I have been holding back on my personal opinion for a year now, and perhaps that’s the reason I have a coughing fit every time I walk into the public board meetings. It must be the strain of choking on the words I meant to say.

Perhaps I can fix that cough by being more clear in what I mean in the future.

Hey, don’t hold back on posting now. As you can see, it is still entirely possible to be anonymous to the people who read the board.

]]> By: Don Mattingly http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-255 Don Mattingly Sun, 17 Feb 2008 13:26:37 +0000 http://pagecountywatch.wordpress.com/2008/02/13/so-whats-the-plan/#comment-255 The question seems to be the option of storing your plane in the dry vs. out in the weather. How does any of this affect the subterrainean water supply, honeysuckle, sunblock, or special hazmat protection? The question seems to be the option of storing your plane in the dry vs. out in the weather.

How does any of this affect the subterrainean water supply, honeysuckle, sunblock, or special hazmat protection?

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